I don’t know that there is anything else more important and timely that I can talk about than this. This information has been available for a long time and it is so plain and simple that it is only kept from people because of our own strange compulsion to overcomplicate things. Let’s break it down and see what amazing gifts that Christ has for us if we’ll only seek to receive them.
5 Comments
Hey man,
Thanks for doing this episode. I especially valued your sharing your experience with the baptism of fire. I’m wondering what you would have to say about the BOF in relation to 3 Nephi 9:20. In this episode you made the statement that the BOF is unmistakable; that if you’re not sure if you’ve had the BOF, then you likely didn’t have it. But in this verse it seems to leave room for something more subtle. Also, the ETB quote “ But we must be cautious as we discuss these remarkable examples. Though they are real and powerful, they are the exception more than the rule. For every Paul, for every Enos, and for every King Lamoni, there are hundreds and thousands of people who find the process of repentance much more subtle, much more imperceptible. Day by day they move closer to the Lord, little realizing they are building a godlike life. They live quiet lives of goodness, service, and commitment. They are like the Lamanites, who the Lord said “were baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and they knew it not.”
Not trying to be contrarian or to catch you. I was legitimately inspired by your testimony but I guess I always held out hope that perhaps my experience with the BOF was akin to the lamanites in 3 Nephi since I can’t say like you that it was unmistakable.
Anyways…I would love to hear your thoughts in relation to this.
Thanks!
Hi Joel, thanks for your feedback and great questions. I think remarkable examples can come in many forms and people experience them in varying degrees. I don’t think that this applies to something labeled as profoundly as a “baptism of fire” or being “born of God,” but I do think there is a caveat on that from something I experienced once.
But before I go there, take note of the word baptism which involves a literal dipping or immersing. Baptism isn’t being lightly misted over a period of time, it happens at once and a person is completely consumed in the midst of water.
A baptism of FIRE is also an immersion but not in physical fire, but the glory and presence of God through his Holy Spirit.
Your question though, an important one, is if this can happen to someone without them realizing what it was, and yes, I believe that this is possible.
Personally, I recognized it because I knew the scriptures well enough at the time to realize the significance of what was happening to me.
I was kicking around the idea of sharing this story as a podcast and maybe I will. But the short version is we confirmed a new member in a ward who was dragged to church and very angry about it. He had a job that kept him up very late and actually lived right across the street from the church so the elders quorum presidency went over there and got him so he could be confirmed.
I remember this day like it was yesterday but it was about 23 years ago. I’ll have to tell the full story in a podcast for detail.
But I watched this man get confirmed and with an angry face storm to the back row and plop down beside me and start complaining about how he had a bad night and why it couldn’t wait until next week.
The sacrament hymn started (There is a Green Hill Far Away) and shortly into the first verse he started to squirm in an odd way. He pulled his tie loose, he began looking around at everyone and had a strange look of awe and confusion on his face. He pulled off his sweater and said he was feeling very warm. He said there was some kind of force moving up his spine and was asking why everyone had light in their faces.
He started weeping and asking why he was feeling that way. I opened up to the book of Acts and showed him that the Holy Ghost was given through the laying on of hands and that is what he was experiencing; a baptism of fire.
He sat there and wept.
For the rest of the meeting he was just looking around in awe with a big smile and his entire attitude was changed and I sat and just observed it all.
After the meeting, the elders quorum presidency came over to him and apologized and were somewhat embarrassed about going and dragging him over to the church.
Ron locked eyes with him and shook his hand and said, “You have no idea how glad I am that you brought me here today.”
True story. So yes, I believe that the Lord may bless people with a baptism of fire and they might not know what it was but still remember and be profoundly affected by it.
I know of others who have had almost the exact experience as me and say, “Oh, THAT’s what that was?!”
Great message Steve.
Well done Steve, you are a great example.
Another simple way to describe the gospel would be that it is our deliverance from death and hell through the Only Begotten of the Father. Your reference to the scripture which says those who will not obey will be damned stood out to me. God does not frame Himself as a destroyer. He, or perhaps we, can damn/halt our progress, but He delights in delivering us from destruction. Appreciated being reminded of that.